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Ts’o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd

Bringing some links buried in comments below to the top, I think these critiques of systemd’s integration and maintenance deserve some review.

First, kernel developer Theodore Ts’o, the developer of e2fsprogs and current maintainer of ext4, shares his reservations about systemd’s engineering, and the trouble he has had understanding and using it.

…a lot of the fear and uncertainty over systemd may not be so much about systemd, but the fear and loathing over radical changes that have been coming down the pike over the past few years, many of which have been not well documented, and worse, had some truly catastrophic design flaws that were extremely hard to fix.

He goes on to describe how he previously had to neuter policykit’s security (rendering his system very vulnerable) just to get his system working, and how he has found systemd “very difficult sometimes to figure out”. Should we be concerned that a kernel developer, obviously a very qualified computer user (an MIT graduate in his 40s), has trouble understanding and using policykit and systemd to configure his own system? Where does that leave the average Linux user in handling these atrociously complex and built-to-be-broken technologies?

His discussion is not a tirade against systemd, but he too warns of the complexity of the system and its XML (even javascript-based?) configuration files, and also of the very poor track record developers like Red Hat’s Lennart Poettering have:

…Kay Sievers and Lennart Poettering often have the same response style to criticisms as the GNOME developers [read other Red Hat developers] — go away, you’re clueless, we know better than you, and besides, we have commit privs and you don’t, so go away.

Predictably, fanboys rush to systemd’s defense in the comments, telling us how wonderfully documented and supported it is, what a quiet, fascist paradise the systemd mailing list is, and how responsive the developers are to every bug, request and patch submission.

Yet just two days ago, we see Linus Torvalds (the creator of Linux and maintainer of the Linux kernel), launching into a tirade against – yes, you guessed it – systemd developers because of their atrocious response to a bug in systemd that is crashing the kernel and preventing it from being debugged. Linus is so upset with systemd developer Kay Sievers (gee, where I have heard that name before – oh, that’s right, he’s the moron who refused to fix udev problems) that Linus is threatening to refuse any further contributions from this Red Hat developer, not just because of this bug, but because of a pattern of this behavior – a problem for Kay because Red Hat is also foaming at the mouth to have their kernel-based, no doubt bug- and security-flaw-ridden D-Bus implementation included in our kernels. Other developers were so peeved that they suggested simply triggering a kernel panic and halting the system when systemd is so much as detected in use.

So much for systemd developers’ responsiveness, and its great engineering, witless fanboys. (Are we really sure many of these fanboys aren’t part of an Infiltrate, Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy program?)

While Ts’o’s discussion of systemd wanted to make me wretch for its usual polite, politically-correct crap, he did at least bring up some core problems in that typically watered-down way that mainstream developers express their opinions so as not to offend any fascists in their midst. Yet even Linus’s tirade, and the lengthy user discussion which followed it, completely miss what’s really happening to Linux. It seems these developers and users can’t rise up enough to get a 3D view – all they can do is focus on minute issues in isolation and fail to put the pieces together in any coherent way. Are they just afraid or feeling awkward to discuss it, or are they like other kernel developers I’ve heard from who are completely clueless about what Red Hat developers represent?

I’ll put it together for you once again. For those who missed it in my other articles, Red Hat is a billion-dollar corporation with deep ties to the US military (their largest customer), and thus inevitably the NSA (a military security organization), etc. Adding to the conflict of interest, they have as direct corporate partners Google, Apple, and other too-large-to-imagine corporations with their hands in slime. Red Hat developers dictatorially control the core engineering of Linux, including components such as udev, udisks, xorg, dbus, systemd, etc., used by every major Linux distribution, as well as other common desktop components such as GNOME and GTK. (As Ts’o put it, “we have commit privs and you don’t”.) These are simple facts, though curiously never discussed. In many developers’ views, these Red Hat developers have consistently introduced closed, overly complex, security-breaking technologies to Linux for years, and have a long and tired history of sabotaging kernel development, creating unending bugs and problems for kernel developers, which they often categorically refuse to address. Linus knows them well – or does he?

Yet the myth continues that Linux is somehow not surreptitiously developed as a product of the military-industrial complex, and that its core engineering is based on open and free contributions. Discussions like these ones above revolve around whatever the bugs of the day are, and completely fail to assess what appears to be deliberate and systemic damage done to the Linux ecosystem, primarily through Red Hat developers.

Wake up, morons – and that includes you Linus (who likes to call out morons as such himself). Start telling it like it is, and start addressing the real systemic problems in Linux’s engineering – namely that brown shirts like Kay Sievers and Lennart Poettering are just front men for a much uglier reality. Otherwise you’re just trying to sweep back the ocean with a broom – your actions are useless and doomed to fail. Getting angry won’t help – start getting smart, and start developing a genuinely free and open operating system, taking you-know-who out of the loop. If you can’t or won’t do that, then you may as well just surrender Linux to them entirely, which is pretty much the case already.


April 3, 2014 - Posted by | News


  1. “Are we really sure many of these fanboys aren’t part of an Infiltrate, Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy program?”

    Thank you for posting this. I’ve been futily trying to ge people to realize this particular risk for some time now. While there isn’t really any *specific* proof, this sudden increase in internal fighting sure smells of something else going on. Worse, when I describe it to some friends of mine that were heavily involved in the Occupy movement, they recognize the style immediately as what was used to disrupt a lot of the Occupy momentum.

    This week saw another casualty, too: all of the sudden Mozilla and the firefox community is fracturing *badly* over a relativly minor gay marriaage issue. Sure, those issues are important, but the concept of “picking your battles” seems to be forgotten.

    I will, however, praise Mr. Torvalds for taking a firm stand on his “no regressions” policy. He may be saving us from more than some badly-designed init software.

    Comment by pdkl95 | April 3, 2014

    • I think the style is particularly telling: Cheap emotional manipulation, accusing people of bad manners and neatly avoiding any factual debate. In this particular one, these techniques get even used against Linus and Theodore Ts’o. Another tactic used if completely ignoring what the opponent says. The same scheme is used by a particular class of people consistently and I am convinced they are working from some kind of manual. Personally, I am sure this is part of an “Infiltrate, Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy program”, the style is just too obvious and nothing like this has ever been seen before in the FOSS community or at least not to my knowledge.

      The sad thing is that people are falling for it. In the Google+ threads, the obvious aggressors are Thomas Bushnell and Paul Morgan, who aggressively manipulate, accuse and distort the truth. At the end, they have Steven Rostedt apologizing without ever having given anything factual or any good argument at all, just by emotional manipulation and pressure. Unfortunately, few people seem to realize what is going on, despite the very clear and repetitive patterns. It is absolutely no surprise that the Occupy people have seen the same thing, but a nice confirmation.

      I recently had the displeasure to run into two of these paid trolls myself. Fortunately the only thing they do for me is make me immediately angry at them for their underhanded tactics. But it seems many geeks are just as easily manipulated as the general population.

      It will be interesting to see what happens when the kernel core-team finally realizes what this is. At least I hope they will realize it.

      Comment by Celos | April 3, 2014

  2. A few related links…

    This article actually mentions that Sievers works for Red Hat, instead of treating him like some independent developer as Linus and others do. Why do these discussions so often fail to mention that it is RED HAT, not just some lone developer, that is making these decisions for everyone who uses Linux? Why don’t they refer to “Red Hat” as the subject in these issues, instead of just talking about the puppets?
    Linus Torvalds Blocks All Code from Systemd Developer for the Linux Kernel

    Back from February, another article that (barely) mentions Red Hat: After Linux civil war, Ubuntu to adopt systemd

    And here Linus does name Red Hat: “If Red Hat wants to deep-throat Microsoft, that’s *your* issue.” Gee, Red Hat sure seems to cause a lot of trouble, huh?

    Meanwhile, Kevin Toppins observes “They will keep on absorbing pieces of linux until systemd is the entire operating system.” [Original link I posted of this which Debian mailing list people felt contained too many asterisks! Heaven forbid.]

    And now we see “Systemd has been working on network support… systemd developers are working towards having DHCP client and server capabilities built into the init system”. Sounds real secure, doesn’t it? I’m sure the NSA and every script kiddie are drooling at ‘The New Microsoft Windows’.

    Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 3, 2014

    • IgnorantGuru…

      I appreciate you including my post in your comment.

      However, the link you gave might actually be slightly counter-productive, seeing as how a lot of people don’t like the formatting, and therefore stop reading.

      Is it possible to edit your post and put this link in its place?


      And maybe put (easier to read version) after it, so people aren’t so confused by the opening.

      Just a small request, given the feedback I’m getting over at debian-devel.

      : D


      Comment by Kevin Toppins | April 4, 2014

      • Kevin, I included the updated link. It is telling that they need everyone to express themselves in a uniform way – history has a lot to tell us about such uncreative people and what they ultimately create. Don’t let them intimidate you – express yourself however you want and let them whine and struggle to actually use their brains.

        Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 5, 2014

  3. Gee, I never thought that you would formulate a post from the links I posted. But thanks a lot for that, couldn’t have done it better myself.

    > They will keep on absorbing pieces of linux until systemd is the entire operating system.

    I have been thinking this for a long time. I am very surprised and concerned that Linus doesn’t realize that systemd is turning into a bigger (and monolithic) entity than Linux itself, and is very likely to consume it in the future.

    As for Kay Sievers, maybe he should rename himself to Kay Sewers, because that’s exactly what he smells of.

    He told to IETF internet area director and previously DHCP working group co-chair “Tod Lemon” to lmgtfy when he asked about a systemd related git repository.


    Here’s Tod Lemon’s response to Kay Sievers:


    Your suggested query returns quite a few results, and it’s not obvious which one is the correct one. Googling for “systemd” alone would have been better advice.

    The piece of information I was missing is that the dhcp client is part of systemd. That’s news—I don’t follow systemd on a daily basis, and this is a new development to me. I asked the question because I assumed that Tom had been hacking on some existing Linux DHCP client to speed it up, and since I didn’t know which client, and suspected that the hacks would have been done locally, I assumed that the repository wouldn’t be easily found.

    I notice that you are a committer. Your condescending response reflects poorly on the project. I’ve worked with people who respond to questions this way. It makes for a stressful work environment—you’re always wondering whether they’re going to try to score points off you when you ask a question. The particular hackers I’m referring to have mellowed with age; I hope you do too.

    Comment by Anonymous | April 4, 2014

    • People like Sievers and Poettering are just bootlickers doing Red Hat’s dirty work. The damaged/over-inflated egos and obnoxious behavior are just symptoms – they come to believe they are all-powerful. That’s the kind of person always recruited for such positions. They do whatever their bosses in slime tell them to do, and enjoy the pseudo-power that comes with the ‘uniform’, like all such people. They are easily replaced with yet another bootlicker – a vast supply. It doesn’t serve anyone to feed their ego dramas – start talking about Red Hat itself instead, because that’s the real author here. In fact, even Red Hat is just a front, although the primary one in Linux. Follow the money and influence, as in any other form of corruption. It’s plain as day once you actually open your eyes. But it took my light bulb awhile to turn on too – then I thought, “How did I not see that?” Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

      Linus knows who he’s opposing when he opposes something they’re doing, and that’s why they have the audacity to treat Linus and others the way they do. What he needs to start doing is framing his opposition in those terms explicitly, instead of allowing these government/corporate forces to operate undisclosed and unchallenged in the shadows, operating through people like Sievers and Poettering. Start telling the truth about how Linux is engineered and why (and that goes for everyone). Surely he can see it, he’s just unwilling to speak about it, probably partly because of his own ego – he doesn’t want to admit that he’s lost control of Linux and that it’s owned. And partly because anyone who speaks of such things knows they will become the target of ridicule and orchestrated attacks. I doubt a person in his position can do it – too much to lose and on some level he knows that. So he just does a small part that he feels he can, trying to keep them out of the kernel proper, and becoming very frustrated in the process. But as I said his efforts are ultimately useless – too little, too late. Do you have udev or xorg installed on your system? Of course you do.

      The myth continues. Just as with most institutions in our world, the truth about Linux is pretty ugly. People prefer their fantasies and will defend them passionately even when they’re not paid to.

      Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 4, 2014

  4. From a relatively reasonable start, you manage to come across like a complete lunatic by the end of the post… Brownshirts, really? You are prepared to accuse Sievers and Poettering of being fascists or nazis? (you do *realise* what “brownshirts” refer to?) If you want to convince anyone, you’d do well to tone down your language and focus on merits and evidence, rather than accusing people of fascism.

    Comment by Vidar Hokstad | April 5, 2014

    • If the shoe fits, …

      Comment by Somewhat Reticent | April 5, 2014

    • In fact I do know what a brown shirt is. Do you know what a metaphor is?

      I chose that metaphor because I do indeed see these people as fascists, not in the historical form, but in the modern form.

      As for lunacy, since you bring it up, governments and their machinations murdered over 100 million human beings in the 20th century alone, not to mention the billions of people driven like cattle to live in utter poverty, starvation and subjugation, to this day. This behavior isn’t lunacy to people like yourself, it’s merely business as usual, sane and normal behavior, and you are perfectly happy to sit back in your comfortable chair and allow it to continue with your tacit approval. You only bring out words like “lunatic” for people who upset your afternoon tea by discussing how governments and corporations are continuing to erode every global institution and system that in any way represents freedom and genuine progress away from such insanity. I think you and your values are all fucked up.

      Yet I’m not seeking to convince anyone. I’m honestly if generally sharing what I’ve found after working in Linux, and am mostly speaking to my friends here, basically intelligent people who understand what’s being said here, comprehend the use of metaphors, and realize the importance of what’s being discussed – how technology is evolving in our world, and how fascism and other nasty processes are evolving as well. I choose strong words deliberately so the message is clear. I’m also speaking to people who simply have open, intelligent minds, perhaps new to such heavy material, but not complete nitwits. As for people like yourself, my suggestion is that you shove your head yet higher up into your ass, and everything will be alright. I’m certainly not seeking to convince you of anything.

      Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 5, 2014

    • This “argumentation”-pattern sounds familiar. Very familiar. And just as devoid of substance, yet intensely manipulative. Maybe I am getting paranoid, but you sound just like “them”.

      Comment by Celos | April 7, 2014

      • It’s never really possible to tell a paid disruptor from a ‘witless volunteer’, as the same patterns are present. The paid disruptors seed the behavior of the witless volunteers, as do cultural norms and media.

        What I see here is a person who is trying to ‘help’ me to be normal. He’s likely an obedient person who carries his corporate lunch pail to work everyday, and has taught himself to fit in, obey, and not question. If he does express any kind of even slightly differing view from his peers, or questions authority in any way, he only does so in a cautious, heavily calculated manner so that he never has to risk being ridiculed. So he’s offering me advice here from that perspective – he’s showing me where I’m losing him with direct honesty, where I’m going wrong in appearing normal and obedient, especially in the corporate world. It’s probably not so much an intentional attack as it is an expression of his own deepset fears. Reading my open expression of my views and direct questioning of established authorities makes him afraid, even afraid for me – “you’re gonna lose your job and reputation, they won’t respect you!” So he acts as the role of gatekeeper for ‘the matrix’, ridiculing and labeling me, trying to pull me back to a more acceptable perspective (to him). It’s downright painful for him to read what I’m saying, and he’s showing me how to behave and fit in. He’s also a bit haunted by the thought that he’s just like the people who supported the Nazis – many of them were simply business people obeying directives too. That’s what really drove him to post an objection, in a culturally acceptable and safe way – ridicule.

        He could also well be a paid disruptor. Yet even paid disruptors are human beings (or human beings operating AI programs), so on some level they agree with what they’re doing and ‘saying’, or at least don’t believe there is good cause to disagree and object. So same basic intentions and loyalties.

        Personally I think anyone who isn’t deeply paranoid today is dumb as brick, and has lost even the most basic remnants of a survival instinct. They would gladly die rather than confront the sources of authority which would gladly kill them. The corporate/western world especially is full of such people – basically people who have been broken, like a horse is broken and trained to obey. Only extreme terror, a fire right in their paddock, would drive them to break a fence and defy their conditioning.

        I find the most effective approach is to turn a mirror on them, especially to show others what they’re being from another perspective. It certainly shuts them up fast, whatever their true intentions, yet really there’s no reaching them.

        Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 7, 2014

        • Unfortunately, I have to agree on all points. I am a bit less of a friendly person than you are though and like to think of the “witless volunteers” by the more classical intelligence term “useful idiots”. They are in ample supply and their fear of and submission to authority is what drives them in all their decisions. Incidentally, Bob Altemeyer calls them “authoritarian followers” and has quite a bit of research that shows how massive a destructive force these people are: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

          Comment by Celos | April 7, 2014

  5. I see the words “proof” and “evidence”, etc. bandied about in these discussions, so I’d like to clarify where I’m coming from with this for those sincerely interested. I understand how computer folks love to argue, and love to have facts to chew on, and I respect doubt. I have indeed given you some facts (such as Red Hat’s largest customer is the US military, and Red Hat is in total control of many core Linux components – these are simple facts, you can look them up or ask people you trust). I hope those facts alone are screaming something at you, yet I’m not seeking to prove anything here or do all your thinking for you. Your working conclusions are your own – I’ve shared mine.

    I’m a guy at the side of the road who flags down your car and tells you that the bridge ahead is out or unstable, so don’t drive you and your family across it! He’s giving you a warning, raising your level of awareness, so even if you do decide to keep driving, you’ll do so with a heightened level of awareness and caution. You’ll be looking for trouble instead of picking your nose. He’s not showing you a photograph of the bridge being out, or an engineering analysis proving to you that it’s weak. Yet there is value in such warnings, even without “proof” – ignore them at your own peril. And really you can’t – just reading this, my purpose is satisfied. You are alerted to some degree. You may even dismiss it for now, but other pieces of the puzzle will present themselves to you, just as they did to me. Truth is relentless, you don’t have to defend it. Yet a little heads-up on it is valuable.

    I’m also not a hero. I’m not planning on waging cyberwar against the NSA on this, nor am I armored for that. I’m not going to do in-depth pattern analyses of Red Hat’s code and show you everywhere they’re introducing exploits. I’m simply not going to unwrap that package all the way. And they know how to hide things openly anyway – it’s called plausible deniability, look it up. People can easily argue about this indefinitely, til long after they’re destroyed by it. Use some common sense. Basically when I crested the hill and saw who was involved, I headed in another direction. If you think it’s so easy to make yourself an outright target, you do it. I’m just showing you the obvious. I’d rather be dismissable as a loony – call it ‘plausible loonability’. Nor do I think direct opposition to them is the answer or required. I think moving in a new, freer and better direction is the answer, yet with more awareness and honesty. Hence my taking the time and effort to spread some awareness. I don’t enjoy this particularly, but I believe in doing my small part. I hope you’ll do a small part too – it all adds up.

    So it’s just a message, from an otherwise reliable source – you know I really am a reliable software developer working at low levels near the kernel for a few years. And you’re not really receiving any disproof, and no one is daring to dispute the facts I have included, if you notice. No one has caught me in a single lie – they are just unsure, and that’s fair enough. Put the message under your hat, or don’t.

    Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 5, 2014

  6. Some day Red Hat will fork the Linux kernel and replace Linus Torvalds with Lennart Poettering. Then every distribution under the sun will be forced to adopt the RH kernel using the methods we’ve already seen. After then Linus will play the role of Theo de Raadt while corporate “Linux” continues on its way without taking notice.

    Empires rise, empires fall.

    I on my side will make sure, that my contributions are GPL incompatible, so Red Hat can’t use them.

    Comment by Anonymous | April 6, 2014

  7. Some mighty heated comments in this bug re systemd and its developers.

    Kay and Lennart: please just go away, disappear from the FOSS community, we don’t need you and your crap.

    The systemd developers are not just idiots who can’t code, but also dictators who want to censor what people say about their shitty project.

    systemd is the worst thing that ever have happened to Linux and FOSS.

    Fork now and fix it, boycott their idiot developers.

    and so on. This demonstrates how systemd was forced on all distributions, regardless of the user and developer backlash against it. There never really was a choice, just an illusion of debate and choice – sound familiar?

    Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 8, 2014

    • Reminds me of the KDE 4.0 debacle all over again. That was forced on everyone, even thought I predicted (accurately) that it would be two years before KDE 4 was actually reliable enough to be used by non-Linux-experts for day-to-day (i.e. can’t afford to lose, or slow down to pointless inefficiencies) work…. And indeed, KDE 4 wasn’t really ready for prime time until version 4.10.

      udev (which every boot up sends a flood of error messages every boot up, and editing the config files on my openSUSE machine doesn’t seem to help one little bit) is a piece of junk, and systemd is turning out to be a steaming pile of botulism and cholera infested excrement.

      SystemD is the AIDS that is killing Linux

      Comment by Aaron Kulkis | April 19, 2014

  8. I also noticed this morning that Debian Testing’s networkmanager is now requiring systemd. Most other packages have integrated systemd support without requiring it. So it seems Debian is really racing to require systemd.

    When I installed Debian Testing, some xfce-related GNOME components brought systemd in, but I tore it out without losing any functionality. Now I will have to dump networkmanager (probably a good idea anyway), to continue avoiding it, or dump Debian or its updates.

    Linux is so rich in choices… except where Red Hat is involved.

    Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 8, 2014

    • Check out ‘dhcpcd only’ config, for most people it should just work and it has dhcpcd-ui applet for use in xfce and alike.

      Comment by proraide | April 9, 2014

      • Any word on what the systemd story is in gentoo? Are they going over to it fully, or are there genuine options in the foreseeable future? Thx

        Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 9, 2014

        • Gentoo provides systemd as alternative init (and requirement for gnome 3), but as far as I know there are no plans to drop OpenRC any time soon, there is a lot of people using it.
          This thread may be of interest to you, even if on some pages there is less revelant content
          The thing I’m most afraid right now is not gentoo itself switching to systemd, but systemd becoming required dependency instead of optional by some software.

          Comment by proraide | April 9, 2014

          • Yeah ofc that’s the problem is that due to systemd’s design, software needs to be hardcoded for it specifically. Thus half the GNU/Linux ecosystem becomes dependent on it. Pernicious – nice virus.

            Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 9, 2014

        • Daniel Robbins, Gentoo’s founder, who later in time left Gentoo and was not allowed to rejoin Gentoo, forked the Gentoo project. It’s called Funtoo, I’ve been using it for quite some time and find it nice. One of the reasons I chose Funtoo is that many of their devs really dislike systemd. And so do I.

          Comment by Jan | April 21, 2014

    • At this stage you can probably compile out systemd support; in debian/control (depends: dh-systemd) and debian/rules (–with-systemd, systemd or similar).

      Personally I just use ifconfig, anything else is just broken (ceni, dhcpcd*) or limited (wicd) or GNOME (network manager).

      * it wouldn’t respect my DNS settings

      Cheers for keeping us up to speed on this crap.

      Comment by Alad Wenter | April 12, 2014

    • Network Manager is another moronic congenitally crippled brainfart which should have resulted in its own spontaneous abortion early on.

      Every time it’s installed on a system I use, it’s constantly IN THE WAY, instead of helping me.

      Comment by Aaron Kulkis | April 19, 2014

  9. It’s been a long time since I’ve attempted to code, I’ve never been great at coding more functional to get a job done (engineering) however systemd and projects like them are bloated monstrosity’s which are too large for outsiders to understand.

    There are alternatives I found this fascinating Demystifying the init system (PID 1) http://felipec.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/init/ and I do think breaking down linux (or a successor) into manageable chunks can be taken back by the “community” I think there is value in the BSD’s and https://www.mirbsd.org/ looks promising. If one aspect of an OS is too large to be reviewed and contributed to by 1-2 developers maybe it needs to be replaced with something more modular and/or portable. There is a tendency of projects such as systemd (and openssl?) to attempt to scare of potential developers with the supposed massive task to create an alternative

    It’s not a done deal with systemd, lets not forget there was some fightback against mono (rightly so imho) and because of that it hasn’t done the damage it could have done.

    A few alternative OS’s out there are worth reaching out, not so much because of security but because they still seem to retain more of a true community involvement to them and approaching problems from a different angle.


    At the moment I can be found at https://twitter.com/bgiltrap , I recently found twitter can be quite effective at getting everyone thinking a little bit more about what is going on.

    Comment by lollynils2113 | April 10, 2014

    • Now that you mention it, my blog has had huge traffic from Twitter today (the Assange article), but it’s not logged specific to referring pages, just Twitter in general.

      Thanks for the links (note that posts with this many links tend to get held in an automatic moderation queue, in case you see a delay in their appearance.)

      Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 10, 2014

  10. […] Ts’o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against systemd […]

    Pingback by Julian Assange: Debian Is Owned By The NSA « IgnorantGuru's Blog | April 10, 2014

  11. Is this fallout from the anti-systemd movement? Sounds promising at any rate, especially if systemd isn’t going to be the init system in jessie. I’ve pretty much decided that I’m going to use a hang-back-and-wait strategy when it comes to avoiding systemd.

    Comment by IgnorantGuru | April 17, 2014

  12. I’d post something witty but instead I’ll post what I really feel about systemd and Poettering:

    Screw systemd and Lennart Poettering. And Redhat too. For a taste of what Poettering is all about go see the RH bug reports and his responses. Like pulseaudio. And Kay Sieverts – cunt.

    I don’t say this lightly. The more I learn about systemd the more horrified I am. I’ve got a RH7 server I’ve spent buku time on I was getting ready to go live with. But I am so disgusted with systemd and it’s hooks in everything that I now say screw it. RH5 was OK – was using it for years. But now I’m going to see if it’s OK with my boss to use Slackware instead. I’ll come up with some reason that he will hopefully agree with.

    Comment by scrooge | March 19, 2015

  13. >>developing a genuinely free and open operating system, taking you-know-who out of the loop.

    Freedom through dictatorial practices like “removing” those you don’t agree with? That’s Stalin’s kinda freedom. I don’t like systemd, but not everthing is conspiracy.

    Comment by Evan Langlois | April 15, 2015

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